the geography of danger: a new survey

According to Globo, the city of New Orleans is more dangerous than any Brazilian city. This article claims that the homicide rate in the devastated Louisiana metropolis reached 96 per 100,000 people in 2006, compared to 90.5 in Recife, which has the highest murder rate in Brazil. (Rio had around 50 per 100,000.)

Though murder is only one aspect of criminal acts that affect a city, it is interesting that an American city is actually more dangerous than Brazilian ones, since most people are apt to believe that Brazil is far more dangerous. Though Rio certainly suffers from other forms of criminality, like armed robbery, kidnapping, and a favela drug war, it is actually safer than most people would assume, since the media constantly bombards both foreigners and Cariocas alike with scenes of blood and gore, even though most people go about their everyday lives without incident.

I for one have been quite lucky, and have lived here for over a year without being mugged or shot. I have never witnessed a shoot out, nor a mugging, nor a murder. I go about my day as I would in any other major city, comfortable but always aware of my surroundings. I learned about being vigilant when I went to school in Washington, DC, which is one of the most dangerous American cities with a very high rate of robbery (one of my friends was mugged at gunpoint during orientation, right in the middle of campus). In Rio, I try to be as careful as possible, and also make an effort to blend in, but also try to prepare myself for the worst, just in case. I happen to think that you run a risk living in any big city, and the risk in Rio happens to be a bit higher than in some American cities.

So I'm opening up this week's survey to anyone who lives in Rio, or anyone who has lived or traveled there recently (in the past three years).

Comments

[Julie]

I spent 5 weeks in Rio, and I never felt like I was in danger. I always tried to be aware of what was going on around me, but I was never scared. My senses were particularly heightened when I was walking late at night in the area that I stayed in, (Realengo), but even then, I didn't really feel like anything bad was going to happen. I hear people say all of the time..."Oh, every person I know that has been to Rio has been mugged." I say, "Well you know me now, and I was never mugged, so you can take that off of your list of negative things to say about Brazil."

[alex castro]

tsc tsc ;)

se vc me lesse, já saberia disso desde janeiro

http://liberallibertariolibertino.blogspot.com/2008/01/do-fogo-para-frigideira-ou-we-are.html

e eu ainda repeti no começo de outubro...

http://www.interney.net/blogs/lll/2008/10/02/as_cidades_mais_violentas_do_mundo/

[Bennett]

I have spent the last five canadian winters in Brazil and am again leaving in two weeks for my 6th season. In Brazil I live in the north east but have visited Rio several times. At first I was freaked but now I am comfortable in Rio and also Salvador. I've met tourists in both of these cities that were getting robbed daily but I've never seen it. Ultimately it comes down to our state of mind. Take precautions but never remain in fear, because we will experience just what we believe in most.
A friend in Fortaleza who is a french expat with over twenty years residence has owned several restaurants over the years and he has never even seen a hint of violence or crime. He lived below a favela and rode his bike home every single night at 2:30 a.m. sem problemo.
Here in Canada, Vancouver to be exact, I know people who have lived there for their entire lives yet they have opposite views of the city.
Buddy #1, Jeffry gets his car stereo stolen every year, at least. He has to park his car in a driveway in front of his home and has alarms and such but the bandits never fail to pinch his sound system. This is the story of his life. When he buys a new stereo he knows without a doubt it will get stolen, eventually, sooner or later.
My other friends, Jim and Wendy actually live quite close to Jeff and they still leave the car keys in the ignition and they never lock the doors on their house. They have never had a problem. Mind you they do not have 3-4K invested in a car sound system and their car is a wreck but I think you get my point.
We can create our own reality but we must feel it in our heart, not just our head.

[Ray Adkins]

It really is about state of mind and I also do think people that are too negative end up attracting bad things to themselves.
I always noticed Brazilians have a tendency to exaggerate or dramatize any news relating to crime, even if it scares foreigners away.
I go to Rio often on business and have never experienced any problem with crime what so ever.
Of course it is smart to behave carefully as you would in any large city.

Interesting fact:

Philadelphia is the American city with the most people getting shot ( not murdered ) on a daily basis, 100 people in average.
Philadelphia Hospitals get flooded with gun shot wound victims every day and "Army Doctors" are sent to Philadelphia Hospitals to train on gun shot wounds before they are sent to war.

[Jen]

Well, I did have this experience while living in SP: http://missokistic.blogspot.com/2008/06/welcome-to-so-paulo.html

But otherwise, I felt safer there than I ever felt in NYC or even in suburban NJ. Crime in Brazil tends to have a clear motive: to gain something tangible from another person or to settle a dispute. If you don't get involved with criminal elements, if you mind your own business and if you keep your wits about you, chances are you won't fall victim. In the US, though, crime tends to be more random and there's often no discernible reason behind it.

I know about the shooting at Morumbi mall (SP) several years ago during a showing of "Fight Club," but for the most part, I never felt like some nutjob would open fire at McDonald's because he had a bad day at work. In the NYC subway, I've seen thugs punch a Wall Street businessman for laughs and have had someone threaten to stab me, but I never had a problem on the SP Metro. In Brazil, you feel as if you can protect yourself against crime if you follow certain guidelines, but in the US, you feel more vulnerable, whether the perception is accurate or not, because you never know when someone with easy access to a gun is going to go off.

I'm sure some Brazilians will disagree with me, but it seems that in Brazil, violence is a means to an end, but in the US, violence is frequently an end unto itself.

[Marcelo]

I think Rio is a very complicated city and a general number can cover many things. There are places where people feel very safe, but others, like favelas, people can be scared about the idea of being hitted in his/her own home. And, in Rio, surveys say, that something like 20% of Rio population lives in favelas. Conflicts in favelas can happen because an enconter between bandits or between them and the police and it can happen suddenly with ordinary people in the streets. It is terrifying. For some people, shootouts are something very common. It is really sad, thinking how abandoned some people are, since these bandits stay something very confortable ruling their own laws over good people.

[Andre]

Fuzzy Math
Population of New Orleans 300,000+
Population of Rio de Janeiro 15,350,201

I have been living in Rio for six years and if you think that Rio is safe then you probably also believe in Easter Bunnies and Chupa Cabras. Tons of people get shot, kidnapped, and mugged every day. Something like 4% of all crime is investigated and solved. The police are under paid and corruption is rampant. But life goes on. The South Zone is nice.

[Tina Reynolds]

I lived in New Orleans for six years before I moved to Rio a year ago, so I guess I have a unique perspective on this issue. The thing about New Orleans is that because it is a small and compact city, the rich and the poor live jaw to jaw, and the "good" and "bad" areas are right next to each other, and can change block to block. I was in Rocinha today, though, in Rio, and saw the same idea along the Estrada de Gavea as very expensive gated homes gave way to the favela as I climbed up. Anyways, back to the topic - the first time I was mugged was in Rio de Janeiro. I feel less safe here in Rio than in New Orleans, because of the extreme differences in wealth. The rich are very rich here, and the poor are very poor and desperate. And the rich seem rather intent on holding onto their wealth. I think the more unequal the society, the more crime because people have less to lose and are more desperate. Another issue in Rio, the kidnappings and carjackings primarily aimed at the rich - that is not something you'd see in New Orleans. Both cities' crime is often drug-related, New Orleans' probably more so. Rio has a huge population - 13 million in the metro area, and New Orleans has about 223,000, so the crime per capita is high in New Orleans, so it seems high in general. The public education system in New Orleans is one of the worst in the country, but in Rio, there are people who have never been to school, and indeed, might not even be counted in a census. Rio is just huge, and daunting to me.

[rich]

"I for one have been quite lucky, and have lived here for over a year without being mugged or shot." I've lived in the US 50 years and haven't been mugged or shot, but I don't feel "quite lucky". I just feel like I've had a normal life. You seem to have an unconscious expectation to be a target.

[Eduardo Sant'Anna]

Hello Rachel,

I truly believe you are trying to see the bright side of the city and not to join the mass that complains that Rio is a terribly violent place. And I think this is a lovely atitude...

However, being a "carioca" myself and living abroad (in the UK) for nearly two years, I must respectfully disagree with you when you say Rio's crimes is not much different from any big city in the world.

There are many things that happen in Rio (and I've witnessed many of them) that are definitely not usual in other big (developed) cities of the world:

- shoot outs during the night being heard quite often in good neighborhood (because there is no way you can live in Rio without being near a favela)
- Constant risk of being shot in your own house or on the street due to "bala perdida" (can we translate as lost bullet?!)
- Drivers being mugged at the traffic signal
- Drivers not stopping at traffic signal because of the possible muggers and this being considered a rule by the population
- even worse: the city council disabling the traffic enforcement cameras in some traffic signals to allow the drivers not to receive a ticket after 10-11PM (and therefore OFFICIALLY accepting that not stopping in the red light due to crime is normal!)
- Bad guys closing major highways and avenues to do carjacking... sometimes under daylight!
- these very same highways and avenues being closed not due to accident but due to shoot outs between drug dealers of different gangs or between gangs and police. (and these highway/avenue incidents happen at least every week!!)
- carjacking targeted to virtually every kind of car and therefore not only the rich are affected: I myself had a 5 years old crappy Fiat Palio 1.0 and 4 guys pointing guns to me stole it!
- being afraid of who will be sitting beside you in the bus home...
- "bus-jacking": when muggers mug everybody inside (news from this week: http://oglobo.globo.com/rio/mat/2008/11/08/cinco_vias_estao_no_topo_do_ranking_em_roubos_transeuntes_onibus_de_celulares-586320873.asp)

And I could go on and on and on...

I do agree that as tourist in Rio people can't really feel that it's sooo much more violent than, lets say, London or Paris. A tourist stays not for long and usually goes only to the nice places...

But if you do go on and live in the "non-marvelous" parts of the city (where at least 70% of the population live, I'd say) that don't even have the view of the beach or the Christ, then you will understand how the city really is. And I'm NOT talking about living in a favela. I'm talking about living in normal places with normal (and quite often middle class/fairly rich) people in the suburbs like "Meier", "Vila Isabel", "Penha", "Engenho de Dentro", "Bangu", "Realengo"... Or worse, in "Baixada Fluminense", metropolitan area, in places like "Queimados", "Nilópolis"...

PS1: Bennett has written about this buddy in Canada that has his radio (a very expensive one btw!) stolen every year. True, these things can happen anywhere and I get the point! However, it's very important to highlight that leaving a car overnight on the street or in a driveway (very common in the US, Canada and Europe) is completely UNNACCEPTABLE in Rio. In Rio a garage is mandatory... and still not guarantee of peace of mind.

PS2: I can only compare with my experience in Europe, particularly in the UK. If NYC is really as violent as Rio (and from what I know, it really isn't!), then I'll be very disapointed with the US... :-(

PS3: I don't care about oficial statistics... In a group of 10 people living in Rio (preferably mixed, not only the ones living in the "Zona Sul"), ask the following: 1- Has anybody here even been stolen/mugged? I bet at least 5 people will say yes. 2- Has any of your close friends and family been stolen/mugged? I bet 7-9 will raise their hand. 3- Do you know anyone at all that has been stolen/mugged? 100% will say yes!!

[Eduardo Sant'Anna]

Ohh...

And this is what I'm talking about:

http://g1.globo.com/Noticias/Rio/0,,MUL845145-5606,00-TIROTEIO+FECHA+LINHA+VERMELHA+POR+MINUTOS.html

Remark: "Caju / Zona Portuaria" means pretty much "city center", meaning that everybody that wanted to go from downtown towards North (after work) were somehow affected.

[Boo Boy]

Your figures are way off.

Urban areas, population, intentional homicides and rate per 100,000:

Recife city (pop. 1,512,800) = 1,375 [90.9]
Philadelphia city (pop. 1,464,576) = 406 [27.7]
New Orleans metro (pop. 1,250,582) = 272 [21.7]

http://www.ritla.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2314&Itemid=147
http://bjsdata.ojp.usdoj.gov/dataonline/Search/Crime/Local/RunCrimeJurisbyJurisLarge.cfm
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2006/data/table_06.html#n

How many times is Recife more violent?:

Recife = 0.0
Philadelphia = 3.2
New Orleans = 4.1

Erm, the New Orleans area is over a million people.

To the author, you've tried claiming a city is more violent than Recife when it has less than 1/4 of the murder rate. It does (again) make US cities look worse than they are and devalues the comparatively untold slaughter in urban Brazil. It is a bit irritating and I'm surprised with you being American you're saying these things.

Ray, Philadelphia?? Don't make me laugh! Anybody who thinks Philly's hospital has a lot of gunshot victims needs to see Rio's or Recife's, seriously, you're out of touch with reality. The only reason American troops practice at Philly is because it's in the UNITED STATES! They wouldn't know what hit them in Brazil.

Urban USA is very safe compared to Brazil though people still think America's the murder capital of the world I can never figure that one out. As we've seen on here, Americans have a tendency to exaggerate crime far more than Brazilians (who like covering it up) which is one reason.

[Boo Boy]

My above comment were figures for, yes, 2006.

[Robin]

It's all a matter of sensible behaviour. I've lived in Rio for a total of four years, plus spent annual holidays here for many years, and (touch wood) have never suffered any crime. The only place in the world where my carioca wife has had her handbag stolen was the King's Road, Chelsea, London!